Curse

Miteshu · Mar 29, 2011, 06:47 PM // 18:47

I find SS isn't really compatible with Mesway.

SS requires foes to attack. Mesway interrupts attacks.

Whats a good variant?

I know discordway is better, but I am lazy and I am a Ranger doing Barrage.

For starters, I am starting to lean towards Resto recovery discord or some other AoE Hero.

GrimmNinja · Mar 29, 2011, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Good varient. Pain of disenchantment. Otherwise sabs will work good

mortenya · Mar 29, 2011, 08:16 PM // 20:16

+1 for pain of disenchantment.

i've started running that most of the time on my curses N.

Miteshu · Mar 29, 2011, 09:25 PM // 21:25

What percent of the VQ areas have enchantments?

mortenya · Mar 29, 2011, 09:41 PM // 21:41

almost all of the areas in NF and EotN have enchantments. there are dervish and monk mobs all over. also, most ele mobs have some enchantments.

there are quite a few in cantha, but mostly monk/ele and some sin. probably about the same ammount in proph.

SS is best if you micro it to a mob you'll kill last, otherwise it will probably get thrown at the mob you kill first. thats my opinion at least, i've used it a lot and like it, but i'm trying other stuff right now.

Why? · Mar 30, 2011, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Curses don't do much in the current meta. There are 2 or 3 handy ones, but beyond that it isn't really useful. I usually go without nowadays, or spec the last 2 or 3 skills of something else with weaken armor/MoP/IP.

mortenya · Mar 30, 2011, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why?

Curses don't do much in the current meta. There are 2 or 3 handy ones, but beyond that it isn't really useful. I usually go without nowadays, or spec the last 2 or 3 skills of something else with weaken armor/MoP/IP.

I can agree with that, I just haven't really gone outside the box with my necros, and I want to have disenchants when dealing with dervish mobs.

also, I'm a fan of enfeebling blood.

Miteshu · Mar 30, 2011, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

almost all of the areas in NF and EotN have enchantments. there are dervish and monk mobs all over. also, most ele mobs have some enchantments.

there are quite a few in cantha, but mostly monk/ele and some sin. probably about the same ammount in proph.

SS is best if you micro it to a mob you'll kill last, otherwise it will probably get thrown at the mob you kill first. thats my opinion at least, i've used it a lot and like it, but i'm trying other stuff right now.

The whole point of Sabway is to not micro.

The Only Warrior · Apr 10, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

SS still works, even if rupted it still counts as an Attack, they dont have to hit u. Mesmers and Necro's have always been good together.

Outerworld · Apr 10, 2011, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Only Warrior

SS still works, even if rupted it still counts as an Attack, they dont have to hit u. Mesmers and Necro's have always been good together.

If the attack/spell gets rupted SS won't trigger.

Daesu · Apr 10, 2011, 10:08 PM // 22:08

This is what I use on my ranger:

BrettM · Apr 11, 2011, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miteshu

I know discordway is better, but I am lazy and I am a Ranger doing Barrage.

So what? With a 7H team, there are so many hexes and conditions flying around that discord works just fine even if you don't run an AP caller build. My ranger and para both use discord teams now. I do try to include a condition on my bar, but that's easy. ("You Are All Weaklings!" is particularly good, since it's a long-lasting AoE condition that's very cheap to use for a ranger or para.)

Daesu · Apr 11, 2011, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

So what? With a 7H team, there are so many hexes and conditions flying around that discord works just fine even if you don't run an AP caller build.

Given that you are relying on heroes AI to be pro-active setting the pre-conditions (hex+condition) for a discord spike everytime, I wouldn't recommend it to be used outside of an AP caller build, unless you are prepared to micro manage your heroes.

Can it be used outside of an AP caller build? Sure, it is PvE afterall and PvE is generally very forgiving, ref: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...t10477511.html

It would just be sub-optimal.

BrettM · Apr 11, 2011, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Sub-optimal. Great. Care to put some numbers on that? Is the difference really so vast that it becomes significant for anyone who isn't obsessed with every last microsecond of performance?

You have two mesmer heroes each with a bar full of hexes. What do you suppose the first thing they cast on any target will be? Perhaps ... a hex? Some of the hexes are even AoE. There are also hexes coming from necros and rits. So it's a pretty good bet that every foe in sight is going to have multiple hexes on it in short order.

The necros are throwing around AoE conditions, there's a spirit throwing blindness, and minions causing bleeding. So it's a pretty good bet that every foe in sight is going to have multiple conditions on it in short order, especially if you have a condition to apply yourself.

A particular battle may start off a fraction of a second slower without an AP caller build, but do we really need to get so wrapped up in "optimal" that we can't tolerate this for the sake of running something less boring than an AP build? Not running AP doesn't suddenly turn D/M/S into a joke build that relies on PvE being forgiving to succeed. It is still going to work at least as well, and probably better, than Sabway/M/S without any more microing than Sabway requires.

So what exactly does sub-optimal mean here? That a mission or vanquish will take a minute longer without AP caller? It certainly won't take so much longer that most players will even notice, much less care.

Daesu · Apr 11, 2011, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Sub-optimal. Great. Care to put some numbers on that? Is the difference really so vast that it becomes significant for anyone who isn't obsessed with every last microsecond of performance?

You can take skills based on their alphabetical order and still VQ successfully in most areas, with 7 heroes (see link provided in my post above). What does this mean?

It means just because a build "works", doesn't necessarily imply it is a good build. Otherwise, people would be recommending a skill bar with 3 rezes because it would still "work" in most parts of PvE, even if it takes a while.

As long as you have enough prots and heals to sustain your team, sooner or later, your heroes would land a condition and a hex on your target by themselves, so yes, it would "work" but I would certainly not call that a good build.

Quote:

You have two mesmer heroes each with a bar full of hexes. What do you suppose the first thing they cast on any target will be? Perhaps ... a hex? Some of the hexes are even AoE. There are also hexes coming from necros and rits. So it's a pretty good bet that every foe in sight is going to have multiple hexes on it in short order.

The necros are throwing around AoE conditions, there's a spirit throwing blindness, and minions causing bleeding. So it's a pretty good bet that every foe in sight is going to have multiple conditions on it in short order, especially if you have a condition to apply yourself.

Sure you have enough hexes, but what happens if your necro decides to cast another hex, over an already hexed target instead of inflicting a condition to prep for a discord spike? Unless you have organized your team in a way as to be sure the first skill your necro would always use would be a condition-inflicting skill and your mesmer to always use a hex first. These skills better have a fast recharge too since discord works on single targets. Take into account that for some mobs there would be hex/condition removal too.

Depending on certain minions to always attack the right target that you are going to spike is not going to work consistently. But sure you can be lucky.

And yes, you can bring a condition skill yourself too. This puts a demand on your own skill bar (similar to AP builds), but without AP, it better be a fast recharge skill.

Quote:

A particular battle may start off a fraction of a second slower without an AP caller build, but do we really need to get so wrapped up in "optimal" that we can't tolerate this for the sake of running something less boring than an AP build? Not running AP doesn't suddenly turn D/M/S into a joke build that relies on PvE being forgiving to succeed. It is still going to work at least as well, and probably better, than Sabway/M/S without any more microing than Sabway requires.

So what exactly does sub-optimal mean here? That a mission or vanquish will take a minute longer without AP caller? It certainly won't take so much longer that most players will even notice, much less care.

Almost any build works if you don't care about being optimal as long as you have the SM portion of SMD and enough heals and prots, but certainly not every build is worth recommending when there are so many better ones around.

Why recommend SMD, especially without AP-caller, when there are now 7H builds that are faster, safe enough, and works well without micro? SMD may appear to be faster because you are killing one target at a time and you shout "hooray!" whenever you see your target's hp goes down really fast, but there are now many more AoE-based builds that can kill a mob even faster, safe enough, and without the need to micro.

Why? · Apr 11, 2011, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miteshu

I find SS isn't really compatible with Mesway.

SS requires foes to attack. Mesway interrupts attacks.

Whats a good variant?

I know discordway is better, but I am lazy and I am a Ranger doing Barrage.

For starters, I am starting to lean towards Resto recovery discord or some other AoE Hero.

oh, don't run sabway, it is way outclassed nowadays. Don't run discord, it takes what 2 heroes should have and puts it on 3.

Mesway is good, paragons are fun, ritualists are also good. Or really, just go to the pvx wiki and randomly choose 5 hero builds and two healer builds and you will find something that works pretty decently.